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Last year, Clea DuvallsHappiest Seasonmade a case for itself as the first good lesbian Christmas rom-com.
In other words, it is extremely fun.
And when I knew I was doing the movie, of course I watched almost everything.
And because there is Jennifer Jason Leigh, whos amazing in the film.
Virginie Efira:For me, it was the opposite.
I was a big, big fan.
I began very simply withBasic Instinct,too.
Theyre not strong women because I dont like this cliche just complex women.
Bad and good at the same time.
His most sentimental movie that I like isTurkish Delight.
You both had quite different experiences being cast in this film.
I said, Im Virginie, I worked on your movie.
Meaning in real life I am dressed like nothing!
Very nice.So after, when he told me, I wrote a role for you, I was surprised.
Of course the character, but the movie too it was so funny, so deep.
When I read it, I thought,Its a masterpiece.It was so deeply Paul Verhoeven.
I didnt sleep that night.
And yes, it was.
Of course there is some dramaturgy and some stuff he changed because its a movie.
He treats sexuality and sex scenes in such a great way; they always serve the story.
And in this case, I feel that theyre funny.
What did you think of each other?
Did you hit it off immediately?DP:We met in the screen test.
I knew that Virginie had the role.
I knew her work and I was already in awe of you, Virginie.
DP:It was very easy to act like Im in love.
VE:You never told me that!
DP:From the beginning we were very much at ease.
I remember you invited me before the casting to eat, remember?
And I think of myself its very pretentious as a very healthy person.
But Daphne told me, You are a little bit crazy like Benedetta.
I feel that her face you might project many things at the same time.
Thats why shes so perfect for a Verhoeven movie.
The ambiguity is already there.
Her face narrates that already.
DP:I like that!
VE:I was hesitating to use the word wild.
Her femininity and her beauty didnt remove the childlike quality.
But at some point, we just left that out.
Because its not the way he works.
It was just about having an instinct on set.
VE:We have really different approaches to character.
For me, I work a lot before on, What does this vision mean to her?
What does it mean to find sexual pleasure?
What does this provoke for her?
A lot of reflection about, Is she a manipulator, or does she have a very deep faith?
But when we were together, we didnt talk about our intentions.
I want to return to the idea of the movie being very funny.
And when you see his filmography, theres always irony.
Some of the things, I didnt realize they were funny until people laughed at Cannes.
For example, You do this because youre in love with her.
Then hed turn around and say, Or maybe not.
VE:Peut-etre, ou peut-etre pas.
DP:I found that very interesting.
The moment he gave us some keys, he would take them away.
Because theres no point in this film to having them.
Everything is ambiguous, including the motivations of the characters.
You know its irony, and you must have faith in it.
When youre coming up against certain limits.
Lets talk about those sex scenes.
Theyre obviously a huge part of the movie, both in terms of sheer volume and the critical reception.
I read somewhere that Paul warned you about the Virgin Mary dildo.
And he said, With girls, and I said, No problem.
And he told me, in English, There will be a dildo.
Theres a filmic symbolism thats very specific to Verhoeven, and thats absolutely free of gratuitous provocation.
DP:Its in the book, as well.
What was that day like on set?
We didnt need it, because we talked a lot about it before, with the storyboards.
Daphne and I are very free about that.
He was surprised that we would do that.
And I said, Oh, why?
And he said, Its not possible to do this in America.
The actresses dont do sex scenes like that.
Maybe it was very prudent with us, but Daphne and I were very free.
Ive read about the male gaze, the female gaze to me, Paul has no gaze at all.
I dont know why; maybe it was too close to our exteriors.
But maybe I only see the good ones.
I know this was something Verhoeven was very worried about.
Personally, though, I thought more about the French resonance.
The only thing I heard was that it was not feminist at all.
But its not feminist to say that!
Because Im a woman, my opinion is subjected to his?
I am automatically an instrument?
But it is true that the movie is contrary to the idea of the religious and political institution.
But after, there was COVID: Okay, life is not a Paul Verhoeven movie.Dommage.
But he said, Oh, come!
Come so you’re able to listen.
I remember he said at some point, Shooting is a democratic procedure.
He was really listening and asking everyones opinion.
VE:I have a question for Daphne: Do you miss him sometimes?
Right before, I was watching an interview of his, and I was like, Ahhh.
VE:Of course.Oui!
I know there was a huge gap between filming and the premiere at Cannes because of COVID.
What was it like to watch it with that distance and with a huge audience?
I thought the movie was going to be released when I was 68.
I cant believe it exists, really.
But when the audience sees it, the movie belongs to them.
In France, I like to read the critics, both the bad and the good.
The different readings that different people have of it, thats really the most fascinating thing for me.
DP:For me, usually when I see a film I did, Im too self-conscious.
But because it was so long ago, I had more distance and ability to really appreciate the film.
It was exactly what I imagined it to be.
But I was still impressed by it, the fact that its not tangible.
You cannot grasp it.
The moment you think its more of a drama, then its a comedy.
I realized I never grasped it.
Thats why its so desirable.
DP:I would have loved her to call me that as well.
VE:Youre jealous?
This conversation has been edited for clarity and length.
