Into Itwith Sam Sanders
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Stephen Glovershows up late to the interview in Gucci slacks and fur-fringed Gucci slides.
I gotta waste this money somehow, hell half-jokingly tell me later.
Straightaway, he mentions his vintage-car project and how expensive its been: Theyre a lot of work.
All the characters are getting older, and hopefully wiser, but one cant be sure.
Its a show that can be rewarding, if you make peace with its being a bit disjointed.
Or, Thats very sad.
But she was also like, I cant be here when you do it.
Oh, goodness.It was very strange.
But out of that camethe Tupac death scene in season three.
Thats how our minds work, mine especially.
A lot of stuff thats hilarious to me can be dark.
But I think the comedy is easier to read in the scripts sometimes.
Thats one of the questions I have when I watch the show.
This is what it feels like to be Black.
If youre Black, all you have to do is look at Twitter.
Literally a nuclear bomb could go off tomorrow and people would be making jokes.
Why was that bomb late?
So I get why people would be like, This is heartbreaking.
Some of it is heartbreaking and sad.
But the show is always based in humor.
Did you think about where viewers landed by the end of an episode?
Because sometimes it feels like,Fuck a viewer.
We want to piss you off.
Deal.Well, I think people get pissed off so easily now.
Were not being provocative to get a reaction.
We attempt to get into the gray areas of things.
And you cant really do that today.
A lot of times, being in the gray area is the same as being an enemy.
Before, they would be like, Oh, theyre talking about both sides and a nuanced discussion.
They asked, Are you sure about that?
And for good reason.
Were trying to make interesting TV.
Are they two different things for you?Yeah.
No, hes not.
I never felt like he was even close to dying.
Most people are into this archetypal heros journey.
He definitely is my favorite character because he is complicated.
Whats a successful rappers journey?
Most think of Jay-Z.
But less than one percent of all rappers end up with a trajectory like that.
Paper Bois struggle is very synonymous with a lot of Black peoples experience.
Even though were not all rappers, were not all from the hood; everybody understands that story.
And the story is Black culture is an asset for Black people for a certain amount of time.
Then its less attractive to the outside world, and what do you do next?
Do you almost feel the same about yourself?
Give him his flowers online and then move on.
That industry doesnt do the same for Black people.
And I feel that question being asked with Paper Boi.
He cant age out.
I think like that character, Bunk.
But if you want to live this life youre accustomed to, it costs money.
Theres this idea of you cant go back, which is also terrifying to Black people.
Youre seen as a screw up: You had a golden ticket, and you blew it.
And if I was you, I wouldve turned into Jay-Z.
Going in the opposite direction is not an option.
Have you done anything like that?No, not yet.
I remember Donald once said to me, Youre not a Hollywood writer.
Theyll try and fit you into that box so they can devalue you sometimes.
And then you realize youre just a tool being used to write things for other people.
(Shout out to Mister; his name is literally Mister.)
All barbers have 17 jobs.
And I think thats a very Black idea.
And not watering it down.
It reminds me of an episode in the first season where theres a wholeinterlude around lemon-pepper wings.
And that only comes up with a Black writers room.
I was kind of like, Oh, I dont care about that.
But at the same time, I get the sentiment.
And I get that.
Theres this idea of Black morality as a kind of crutch to Black people thats interesting to me.
Im actually writing a movie that deals with it.
Some of these ideas manifest themselves in season four.
How do we decide whats good and what we want out of the art and the ideas were getting?
Do we want the same old thing?
Do we want to be comfortable?
Or do we want to try new things?
Weve gotten criticism for stuff weve done that people dont like, but we took those chances.
Hopefully people want to try new things and be weird.
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