Into Itwith Sam Sanders
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Nonetheless, when she sat down with me at Vulture Festival, she came prepared to teach.
Listen to the conversation below or read on for the full transcript.
A quick heads-up: This conversation includes a reference to disordered eating.
Sheryl, Im going to tell you what surprised me the most about your career.
Before you got into TV and movies and Broadway, you did a USO tour.
Tell the babies here what a USO tour is.Okay.
The USO is the United Service Organizations.
Celebrities and stars go to foreign U.S. bases around the world, and you perform for the troops.
This was at the beginning of my career.
How did you get that gig?Honest to God, this is like a movie script.
But back in the day, photographers would put out ads for models and you would go in.
Now, most times you are an up-and-coming actor and you need headshots.
It always starts with, Okay, just drop your blouse.
I was like, No, I really just wanted some headshots shot.
That photographer.The photographer that tried to get me to take my clothes off.
I was so hurt and embarrassed.
I walk in there and I meet this woman, and theyre looking for a singer.
Im like, I can sing, but I cant sing with my clothes off.
She slowly raises her golden-blonde head and she said, We already have the one with her clothes off.
We need one who can sing.
I said, Okay, where?
She said, Youre a singer sing.
Just right here in your office, sing?
And shes like, Sing.
Whatd you sing?I dont know what I sang, but I sang and they hired me.
But I am now the opening act forthe Penthouse Pet of the Year.
Can you recall any of the opening act?Her name was Anneka di Lorenzo.
c’mon, Miss Anneka di Lorenzo.
And she would just float on stage.
But the outfit made you think it was.
It was very diaphanous.
It just floated in the air.
And she was a wisp of a woman with the most fiery red hair.
And she had a smile.
This woman would walk out on stage and just float around.
That was her talent.
Sort of like an early Kim K.
Thats amazing.Its the truth.
I did that for two years.
Every time I Google you, I find out more that youve done.
I bet most of you didnt know that Sheryl made an album, did you?
And its really good too.I have a Christmas album coming out.
It is aptly titledSleigh.
But you said, I feel it in my spirit.
Im staying in L.A. Did you have work lined up at that point?Hell no.
I had a dream lined up.
How did you get work?Literally my acting teacher.
I went to a great university called Rutgers University.
It was calledA Piece of the Actionand I was cast.
And that was that.
Theyd say, We love you, Sheryl.
But the industry does not do you.
They dont do Black women.
Good luck with that.
How often would you hear that?
And what would you say when you heard it?You know what?
Its so interesting because I heard it so often.
How does someone deliver that in a way that feels helpful?
What more did he have to tell me?
They are not looking for the Black girl.
What more did he need to say to me?
Let them produce a project for you.
Let them make a role for you.
Let them make a film for you.See, no, the industry does not always work like that.
Robert De Niro and I were in a perfect film together where he was one of the producers.
So he was doing me a favor in that project.
It was for me to be there to get the right start.
You always have a pleasant and positive and optimistic disposition.
Its like Im the reverse Frankenstein.
Its been difficult for me in the industry.
But Im happy with my career.
I stood up on stage and [singing] I won an Emmy.
Hearing you tell every story about your career, you are several things at the same time.
You are open to serendipity, you are upfront about what you need.
You accept help, but you never seem to get too agitated by life.
Theres something thats keeping you grounded.
Because I feel it.
And I think everyone who loves you on screen feels it too.Im telling you, life is so simple.
We make everything complicated.
I know that its simple, so I live a simple life, and I simply love me.
I get up in the morning.
I look at myself and I say, You go, girl.
And no matter how I look.
Im happy to say, I woke up like this.
Is there a space in your career that feels the darkest?
It feels like, from what Ive read, thatDreamgirlswas tough for you.Dreamgirlswas very tough.
Tom Eyen had this idea for a girl group.
Nell Carter was a great actress back in the day.
But she started a series calledGimme a Breakand she left the workshop ofProject #9, which would becomeDreamgirls.
Then it became a vehicle for Jennifer Holliday.
And it becomes this phenomenal, groundbreaking musical.
Sort of like whatHamiltonwas when it opened.
Everybody wanted to see it.
Everything goes great for us.
But then when theyre doing the movie, they just didnt want to include us.
And that was really hard because the show was built from our experiences.
And nobody ever talked about that.
There were some personal issues for you during the show.
You said youwerent eating.Your brain can do crazy things on you.
I was always the second.
Youre hearing it over and over, and then you start to believe it.
Im like,Here I am.
Im coming up second.
I figured out I will tell myself what to do, so I stopped eating.
Because they couldnt make me eat.
One day I opened up the stage door and there my parents were.
Was that the hardest moment?I think thats one of them.
Because that would give her the energy to do the character.
You tell the brain enough things over and over, it starts to believe it.
So we were cheated out of a great relationship.
But she gave a good Tony Award winning performance.
Yall talk now?Yeah, we talk now.
When youre little girls, you do little girl things.
When youre grown ass women, you do grown ass women things.
You know better, you do better.
Weve got to talk aboutAbbott, right?The best show on TV.
Why do I say the best?
There just doesnt happen to be another show that pulls in the numbers thatAbbott Elementarypulls in.
And heres whats crazy.
When you look at Abbott by the numbers, it works in some incredible ways.
The audience for Abbott, since its debut,has quadrupled.
That does not happen.
What happens, all the time is these networks think theyre doing charity by green lighting a majority-Black show.Correct.
Its a critical hit.
And its not just a critical hit, its an internet meme hit.
How did yall come together?I met Quinta years ago when I was doing a series calledFam.
We were walking across the CBS lot and my daughter was like, Thats Quinta Brunson, mom.
Shes going to be big.
You have to meet her.
And that was when we first met.
Then the second time we met, I was doingBlack Lady Sketch Show.
And she was just looking at me like she was studying me or something.
Like she does in the show.Exactly.
And I was like, This is so sweet.
That was what she used to call me, Miss Ralph.
Now she just calls me Sheryl.
And there was something about the way she said it that said, Just go ahead.
Did you like the role at first?At first, I really wanted to play Principal Ava.
Now, Im imagining Sheryl as Ava.
Thats a different dynamic.I could see it.
It wouldve been different, but once again, the magic sauce is Quinta.
Quinta knew exactly what notes she needed everybody to play.
Yeah, you do.
Where is the Emmy in the house?
Do you talk to the Emmy?
Do you look at the Emmy?
Do you hang out with the Emmy?Its right by the bed.
I wake up and I look at that Emmy.
Im like, Look at you.
I look at it and Im like, That happened.
When they called my name, I lost my mind.
Did you expect it?Nope.
I was really in a very grateful place.
I would always be an Emmy-nominated actress, always.
And the story of it is so beautiful.
Its tragic, but beautiful.
There was a 35-year gap between you winning that category as a Black woman and the previous winner.
You and the previous winner have a connection.
Correct?We have a connection because we both started out on Broadway, singing.
And were talking about Jackee Harry.
I dont remember it, but thats the lore.
I love when she tells the story because Im like, Thank you.
How long do you think before the next Black woman wins that category?
How much better is it?Its so much better.
Look, it could happen again next year.
I loved it when you said that I actually saved the Emmys.
Id like to host the Emmys.
Now, come on now.Next year.
Thats what Id like to do.
Whats your opening number?
[Singing] Theres No Business Like Show Business.
I want to ask a little bit more about your role in the show.
You are performing maternal so beautifully.
Once Im dead and gone and theyre left behind, I know I will have done a good job.
I know that I have left the world a much better place.
Now, that would be great.
I can live my truth to get ahead.
I can speak my own truth to power and still make it.
You change the life of the kids onAbbottorBrandyonMoeshaforever.
Is there some kind of lesson youre trying to teach viewers about mentorship through these roles?My god.
Shes actually teaching me something new.
We actually work and learn together and I love that.
Too many folks of older generations act like theyre going to be alive forever.
I want them to know that I was there for them.
I am actually Betty White Black.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
