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The effect is more poetry than straight narrative, and its all the freakier for it.
Ive been thinking about this movie a lot.
I apologize!Im always struggling [with sleep].
It was this really blurry, AI weirdness.
Whats on the other side of dreams?
Theres something more at work than simply a mass [hallucination].
It was about, how do I tell that story in a way that interests me?
For me, making movies is more about resting on emotion than a perfect screenplay.
Lets go back to the study.
That really stood out to me.
Ours is wildly sci-fi.
]Dreams are highly intriguing.
Its where we work out our issues, who we are, what we fear.
When I was about 8, my mom passed away, and I had sleep paralysis.
I saw a shadow sitting at the end of my bed.
At first, I was horrified.
It was this grief merged with fear.
And then it just went away.
Why not be intrigued by that?
I have terrible nightmares, too.
Do you still have sleep paralysis?
And what do you dream about now?I havent had sleep paralysis since that bout with my mother.
But in terms of nightmares, endless.
Luckily Ive had people reach out and say, Hey, Ive seen that in my dreams!
Why are you doing this?
I was like, Well, okay, good!
And we gotta figure those things out to be complete people.
Its interesting that you mentionedThe Nightmare,because I thought of that a lot while watching.
At what point in your process did you see that?
And it solidified this notion that were all seeing the same stuff.
And that really freaked me out.
So thats probably where it comes from, but who knows.
I want to get into all of those influences.
Do you know what Im talking about?I think I know the Creepypasta thing?
Im sure that had something to do with it, too.
[I show him the photo.
]Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah!
[His dog starts barking loudly.]
I knew there wasTwin Peaksin here!Of course.
I couldnt escape it.
Anyway, the face guy thats the thing.
When you talk about dreams, there are these things that get under all of our skin.
Theres a modern striving for cinematic perfection, and I wanted to not listen to that.
Everyone else is a construct of the media that I grew up with.
What got Sarah to where she is now, based on that culture?
I really wanted to examine that.
Like, Jeremy is the love interest?
Yes, but hes a piece of junk.
Hes always been a piece of junk.
What do you mean?Have you seen Joe DantesExplorers?
Its like, What are you doing?!
Thats really completely pervasive in 80s media and culture.
And its little things like that, that I wanted to explore in my movie.
Like Lynch, andTronWeirdly,Tron!
A big influence on me.
But such a different kind of movie than I wanted to make.
Its kind of bizarre.
And people dont even see thievery as a negative.
I havent been able to escape it.
And in fact, I decided to embrace it.
This movie isnt an 80s movie, in no way, shape, or form.
If you took it back in time, people would say, What is this?
But its built from all of the things Ive been influenced by.
I just cant escape them.
So I just decided, Im going to explore that.
And the film feels like a dream, which adds another layer entirely.Yes!
Its a film dream.
As a filmmaker and someone into movies of that era, its what you would dream.
That was the idea!
Do you want people to be on drugs while watching this movie?[Laughs.
]You know, I dont suggest it.
It wasnt good for them.
That is very stressful to imagine.Yeah.
I wouldnt recommend it.
Are you a lucid dreamer?
This movie felt to me specifically like a lucid dream.Yeah.
Im getting better at it.
He said, Hey man.
Come here for a second.
You know this is all a dream, right?
And he just walked off.
That really hit me.
Oh my God.For no reason!
My whole thing is, we dont know anything.
The good and the bad …
It makes me believe in Cinema Jesus.
Telling us what to make as movies.
You just listen to Cinema Jesus and he tells you the right ideas.
You think theres, like, a deep subconscious oracle dictating to us?I cant say no!
Theres too many things that point towards it.
This is why we love movies likeThe Matrix.
Theres so much that points toward the evidence of the Matrix, as opposed to not.
This movie exists in the realm of, Is it possible?
Did you see Rodney Aschers newest doc,A Glitch in the Matrix?I havent yet.
Apparently theres crossover withCome True.
Yeah, its kind of freaking me out.
To that point, there are holes in the narrative of the film.
Can you talk to me about resisting the need to explain things?
In a dream, youre one place one second, youre one place another second.
As long as theres a theme that makes you go there, thats how dreams work.
The only place you could do this is in independent film, and specifically low-budget independent film.
Because its really hard to get those decisions past a committee.
So why not make something experimental in this realm?
When I get asked to make something for Marvel, Ill start answering questions.[Laughs.
]But evenWandaVisionisnt answering all of the questions!
I think people are starting to embrace not wanting answers.
But for a while there, media was pretty on the nose.
This is reactionary against that.
The film feels really tonally consistent and cohesive.
But our ambitions were wildly bigger than our budget.
The only way to do it was through brute force.
Its really hard to convince people to give you millions of dollars in the current market.
What was the budget?Im not gonna tell you.
Ill just say it hovers around $1 million CAD.
I couldnt have made this movie outside of Canada.
We have a support system.
Its why David Cronenberg exists.
Its hard to convince people to make weirdo genre movies.
[Spoilers below forCome Trues ending.]
I want to talk about the ending.
I was a little confused by it, which I know is the point.
Its not an accident that the message stays onscreen for a long time.
Its not that Im an idiot.
Do people think thats what happened, that you got stupid?Some people!
Someone wrote, Ive never seen a more inept ending in my life.
Its because they think I just went, Its all a dream!
So the message might not be for Sarah.
Its for us?Yeah.
It is a sort of derided tropeIts what youd expect from a movie about dreams!
But it did feel too easy.
So thats not exactly what I thought was happening.
Did you anticipate that reaction?Right, if it feels too easy, it probably is.
I knew some people would think that.
But you hope someone else standing next to them will say, I dont think so.
Its the same feeling Id come away with when Id see something likeLost Highwayin the theater.
Someone would say, Oh, thats a hunk of shit.
And somebody would say, Thats the best thing ever.
I did feel uneasy and sick after.Yay!
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
