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I dont really understand why.
It may be that it followed on fromTopsy-Turvy.
And some people, not everybody, used words like miserabilist.
Timothy Spalls performance might be the most heartbreaking one he has ever given.
How did you and he work on that character?I think it is the most heartfelt, and … Not that the others are not truthful, but he really taps into something very profound and understated.
I cant say very much about how we put the character together.
All or Nothingalso marks the early appearance of two young actors who eventually became quite famous.
You worked with Sally Hawkins on subsequent films.
[Laughs]Butthey came through the ordinary processes of a casting director suggesting I see people.
I saw a lot of young actors at that time.
Sally Hawkins was one of them.
Sally Hawkins is a consummate character actor.
I dont know whether youve seen it yet.
She was a distinguished experimental actress in Peter Brooks company and very reluctant to do films.
She said, I dont like films.
I persuaded her to do it.
And of course, shes fantastic as that woman in the back of the taxi.
Its only one sequence, but boy, does she deliver.
Its interesting to see her doing this very extraordinary performance as the one witch inThe Tragedy of Macbeth.
And he just was brilliant at the improvising.
How do you determine whether an actor can handle this process?I do elaborate, long audition procedures.
I only ever audition people alone.
And because we develop the action always in the location, its an organic and integrated process.
We looked around and said, Well, we might have to go really some distance away.
Then one day, they ran in and said, Oh, youll never guess what.
And we can do whatever we like with it.
This social-housing estate, which had 300 apartments in it, was fantastic.
Vera Drakecomes after this.
Were you already thinking about the ideas behindVera Drake?
I was aware of it from an early age, partly because my dad was a doctor in Manchester.
Later, I found out its because she had been in prison.
Ive got as big a soft spot forVera Drakeas any of my films, really.
The central performance inVera Drake, Imelda Staunton she is now playing the queen inThe Crown.
Shes a consummate character actor.
I grew up in a provincial, suburban place.
A part of my very early life was in an industrial area.
I was born in the war, in 1943, so I was a child in the 1940s.
Though we only realized that later.
Elements of those experiences lurk about in my films in all kinds of ways.
But Ive never wanted to make a film where one of the characters was me, as it were.
Id been trained as an actor.
I went to two art schools, and I also went to the London Film School.
Those things all contributed to my clarifying what I wanted to do and how I should go about it.
For various reasons, they had a very impressive, state-of-the-art studio theater, but they hadnt got actors.
But they had got a so-called arts club for 16- to 25-year-olds.
I was hired to do whatever I wanted with these young people.
I had these ideas about trying this sort of thing.
Soon as we did it, we thought,Okay, this works.
I knew I wanted to make movies.
I just had been to the London Film School, and Id been in a couple of films.
And Id made some shorts.
But throughout the 60s, it was all theatrical experience until such time as we could make a movie.
And that wasBleak Moments, which we made exactly 50 years ago.
Do you ever rewatch your films?Yes.
I mean, Im not like Gloria Swanson inSunset Boulevard.
I dont watch them every night!
But do watch my films.
I like my films.
they say, I cant bear it.
I cant look at it.
Some more than others.
I sawNakedin college, which is probably the exact right time for a movie like that.
So for me, itll always be your greatest film.
But its fascinating to revisit, because it changes with every viewing.
There is unquestionably a profoundly misogynist character in the landlord.
But Johnny is more complex than that.
But in a way, thats what I feel about all my films, includingAll or Nothing.
Theyre not message films.
Theyre not films that say, Think this.
I mean, they leave you with stuff to argue about, if you like.
Is that harder to do today?
And certainly, its tougher to get backing for films at the moment.
I also wanted to make a film about male behavior.
These are kind of conceptual possible starting points rather than actual fixed ideas or agendas or objectives.
Because Id just madeHigh Hopes, followed byLife Is Sweet,which was kind of a domestic film.
I wanted to break away from that.
He had been in a couple of things Id done, and he was inLife Is Sweet.
But his part inLife Is Sweet, because of the dramatic requirements of his character, was brief.
He understood that, but he wasnt pleased about it.
So, I approached him and said, Did you want to talk about doing another film?
I think you could say I stuck to my promise.
But all the actors do a lot of research, whatever it may be.
Spall drove around in a taxi [forAll or Nothing].
Marianne Jean-Baptiste learnt how to be an optometrist forSecrets & Lies.
What shall I do about it?
David is a very intelligent and well-read actor.
And hes pouring out all this bullshit about laser tattoos and 666 and all that stuff.
We sort of distilled that.
For many years in the U.K., you were known primarily forAbigails Party.
Is that still the case?
If you look atAbigails Party, youll see boom shadows and inconsistent lighting and all of that.
It was on Channel One.
There were only three channels at that time.
On Channel Two, there was a very highbrow, intellectual program that nobody wanted to watch.
And on the commercial channel, there was an industrial strike.
So, 16 million people tuned in toAbigails Party, and it became acause celebre.
So, you never know whats going to become iconic and whats going to sink without a trace.
I think one film we havent talked about, which is very important, isMeantime.
And, thank goodness, that is in the Criterion Collection.
We wanted to make it as a feature, but it was a Channel 4 film.
And it was the third Channel 4 film.
It was very early, and they hadnt quite got it together to back 35-mm.
So it was a telefilm, and it did sink without trace.
But for years, I got letters from people saying, Im unemployed.
It was about unemployment at a time when that was a real issue.
It still is, of course.
So it did resonate.
And Alfred Molina and Marion Bailey.
Meantimeis quite a subtle film.
But in terms of what happens, its not a particularly shocking movie.
Basically, their concern was that you dont see people manning the barricades in the film.
It doesnt make a revolutionary statement.
Now, thats open to some debate, depending on what youd call a revolutionary statement.
As far as Im concerned, it absolutely deals with the issues.
But it does it through what happens, looked at intimately between these people in this extended family.
None of my films leave you with a black-and-white message.
Godard used to say that the point was not to make political films but to make films politically.
That seems to me an incredibly political thing for an artist to do.Well, I agree.
This period in the 70s when you were working in television is a fascinating time.
The great thing about the BBC atthattime and I stress that, as opposed to atthistime was the freedom.
Okay, theres the budget.
Those are the dates.
Go away and make a film.
To some extent, the British film industry at that time was still an outreach of Hollywood.
You couldnt get an indigenous, serious, independent British movie together.
Occasionally, things slipped through the net, but very few and far between.
And the BBC used to say, No.
Channel 4, once it got going, changed the landscape.
We made my first film independently,Bleak Moments, in 1971.
It was unthinkable to me.
But thats what happened.
Once we all started to have the opportunity to do movies because of Channel 4, it took off.
And the rest is history.
Its calledAll or Nothing, and weve talked about that already!
To some extent, the reaction toPeterloowas disappointing.
One is that it was not accepted by Cannes, which we were very surprised and shocked about.
That really pissed me off!
I mean, Cannes is different.
Cannes, they have to pick the competition; theyve got their own idiosyncratic, Parisian criteria.
And we did quite well in Toronto and all that.
But there is no excuse for the New York Film Festival.
Its the most intelligent audience in the world.
The question-and-answer sessions are to die for.
And it should have been there.Peterloowasnt released in France or Germany.
The same thing happened elsewhere.
French backers wouldnt let us takeTopsy-Turvyto Cannes.
They said, rather extraordinarily, The critics will eat you alive.
Cannes turned downVera Drakeas well, which was really shocking.
And we sent that to Venice and we won the two top prizes.
And the scene where the guy that used to own the photographic studio comes back in a terrible state.
Now, those two scenes are fundamental.
But they simply said, No, you have to cut them.
A complete waste of money.
And all the distributors, including unlikely people from Warner and Disney, they all said, Its perfect.
And they left with their tail between their legs.
So, this is the kind of bullshit that we have to put up with.
