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We see cameras swirling around on dolly tracks.
We see the director barking out instructions and ideas.
It all feels like a portrait of Nick Caves journey through grief.
And there are moments in the new film that feel like payoffs of things we saw in the first.
Thats how I look at it.
I didnt conceive them.
I was asked to do both of them by Nick.
And I never would normally do something like that.
The first one was really just crisis management.
He had a nightmare about all these hundreds of journalists flashing before his eyes.
So he came up with the idea:Well, lets shoot all the songs on the record.
Obviously there was a need to address what was going on.
But it was a subject that you could only approach very softly.
You see at the beginning of the movie, they wont talk about it.
You had to sort of creep up on it.
But it was the only subject there was.
So there was no getting away from it.
Im just there in the corner.
Im kind of an encumbrance, really, on the making of the record.
Which is not really the main thing thats happening.
The main thing thats happening is trying to take steps forward in the face of a tragedy.
But it was incredibly liberating to just not matter.
Youre doing it on instinct because youve got no other choice.
Its the opposite of how you make a film, normally.
The constant concern was just, is it grief porn?
And we didnt know where the line was.
But Nick knew there was no getting around it.
He had to do the state of the union about where he was because everyone cared about that.
Theres such an outpouring of love toward Nick.
I think he wanted to acknowledge that.
But I think with Arthur, there was no way of doing that.
It was the first time he wasnt able to do it.
He was living in a world without narrative, a whole lot of fractured bits and pieces.
Hes realized that life is chaos and theres not much he can do about that except how he responds.
So hes done a lot of work to find his way back to solid ground within the unknown.
As responsibly as Nick has.
And that meant being honest abouteverything including the fact that youre making a film.
Because its ridiculous to pretend otherwise.
And I like the aesthetic of filmmaking.
And he thinks,Thats much more interesting than what Im painting.
And the trick of it is, how do you get that to happen while youre shooting the movie?
You want to blur that line because you just want everything to be real.
He just wouldnt care.
I love the expression Nick uses when talking about Warren: Hes never receiving, hes always transmitting.
And you show that in the film, how everythings chaotic and nothing seems to be written down.
With a beginning, middle, and end.Theyre playing.
And Nick will go [snaps his fingers quickly] and that means do something else.
So Warren will try something else.
And Nick will add a bit of piano to it.
They recordedCarnagein two days.
But Nick has done three months of preparation for those two days.
And when it works, its magical because it surprises them.
They listen back to it and go, Wow.
Whered that come from?
The music becomes a thing by itself, with its own life.
Their relationship is funny because the music is a direct expression of how they deal with each other.
Theres this piece of music inBlondewhere Warrens singing into a vocoder.
Its this operatic, incredible sound, and Warrens just singing and singing and singing.
And Nick, theres this amazing slamming on the piano that goes with it.
He was on that fucking vocoder for like half an hour.
Im just hitting the piano, trying to get his attention.
Has this experience changed your approach as a filmmaker?
He doesnt know what Nicks going to do.
So since that time, Ive tried to push people to start working before theyre ready.
I dont think that shooting a film is about perfection.
I think its about being interestingly imperfect.
I dont believe in the take anymore.
Thats the great thing about digital.
You dont have to cut.
You just keep going, you dont stop.
Filmmaking can be dull, but this kind of filmmaking is not boring for the director.
When I get bored shooting something now, I move on.
Because unless somethings actually happening, its not going to look like somethings actually happening.
Nicks the best financier Ive ever worked with.
For all their unique qualities, the two Nick Cave films do fit in the continuum of your career.
EvenKilling Them Softlyis all about maintaining appearances and maintaining reputations.Blondes the grandmother of those films!
Its very much concerned with identity.
But isnt that the whole thing, dude?
Do we even have a sense of self?
Is our sense of self just getting in our way?
Is the self illusory?
Do we need it?
Shes not seeing the world, really; shes seeing herself.
Theres no consensus reality anymore.
Its all from the point of view of: If Id been there.
If Id been there, she wouldve been fine.Blondethe movie is no different, you know?
I mean, I dont know.
I dont even think about that.
Thats the media crisis persons preoccupation.
Theyre paying $400 million for movies.
A little $22 million movie, its not going to break the bank for Netflix.
Then weve got to work out how they want it to enter the world.
Its not going to come out til September.
We shouldnt even be talking about it.
[Laughs] By the timeBlondecomes out, everyones going to be sick of talking about it.
I dont know that thered ever been a movie that had a protagonist who was so out of control.
Its like, usually youve got Henry Hill to kind of keep you a bit stable around Joe Pesci.
MakingGoodfellasfrom Joe Pescis point of view wouldve been pretty interesting, I guess.
But I think the reason thatChopperwas successful is because its funny.
The other films Ive made arent that funny.
Killing Them Softlyis kind of funny.Ithink its funny.
But not as funny asChopper.
I mean, in Australia,Chopperplays … they roll in the aisles kind of thing.
The only country where they didnt laugh was Germany.
Why is that?Because theyre German.
You cast Eric Bana as the lead inChopper, and he was a comedian at the time.
What possessed you to cast him?
Was it the comic background or was it something else?He could do Mark.
I dont know if youve ever seen Mark Chopper Read, the real guy?
Its unbelievable how close Eric is to that guy.
His own father thought that in some parts ofChopper,it was actually Mark.
Usually, the problem with most films is theyre miscast.
Not most films, but it can happen.
Its the same problem withBlonde.
You have to cast somebody that you buy as Marilyn Monroe.
Shes amazing, that girl.
Youve got no idea, dude.
Youve got no idea how good Ana is.
Shes as good as James Gandolfini.
It wasnt just that one year.
The secrets got out, mate.
Youve been wanting to makeBlondefor a long time.
So if you Google Image search Marilyn Monroe, youre going to see scenes fromBlondethat weve imitated.
The meaning of its the opposite of what you think.
A simple example would be Bye Bye Baby becomes a song about abortion.
I thought wed colored inside the lines.
Its just a weird time.
Its not like depictions of happy sexuality.
Its depictions of situations that are ambiguous.
And Americans are really strange when it comes to sexual behavior, dont you think?
I dont know why.
They make more porn than anyone else in the world.
Its dangerous to do other peoples thinking for them.
Because we know that her life was on the edge, clearly, from the way it ended.
Do you want to see the warts-and-all version or do you want to see that sanitized version?
Its an interesting time forBlondeto come out.
Were in a time now, I think, where people are really uncertain about where any lines are.
Its a film that definitely has a morality about it.
Theres something in it to offend everyone.
But its a Brad Pitt movie that made nothing.
Im always surprised and delighted when people like it, I love all that.
It seems to be more and more liked as time goes by.
