TheWhite Lotuscreator understands if you feel conflicted about that ending.
Save this article to read it later.
Find this story in your accountsSaved for Latersection.
I want to know about the mural behind you!Oh yeah, thats wallpaper.
Is it a fantasy world?Its called Eden, so a little bit.
Theres elephants and birds.
This is tangentiallyWhite Lotusrelated, right, because its all about travel and fantasy and And colonialism.
They all at some point had a stamp on Sri Lanka.
You go to these colonial spots, and the architecture, the houses, theyre so fantastic!
Its so perverse you go there and you think,This is living!
This is the house!
Lets talk about the end ofThe White Lotus.
You dangle the mystery of an unidentified dead body from the beginning, and it clearly propels the series.
So you knew you wanted a dead body.
But I knew I wanted Armond to die.
I sometimes feel like Im in the service industry, even though Im not.
Dancing for the man I find myself doing that a lot.
I also felt there was something very touching about this being his last great dinner service.
Like, That was the best seating ever!
Theres something so puny [about it], but also hes a performer.
Theres nothing left to say!
Its like hasta la vista, theres nowhere to go from there.
Did you know it would be Shane who kills him?Yeah.
Thats so my I hate to say this, but its very on-brand for me.
Its the situational part of it that becomes a more existential thing.
Those are stories that I like.
Honestly, it feels true to life for me.
Ive seen peers who may not have been in this exact situation.
Even if its just an idea of her.
And hes the kind of guy where as long as hes waiting, its okay.
Its only when he doesnt get what he wants that he shows his douchebaggery.
Maybe its a little bit of a portrait of mediocrity or someone whos weak.
Theres a little bit of pathos there for me.
Maybe Im being condescending to them, but Ive seen it in my life.
There is a powerful pull of money and lifestyle.
In L.A., you see itallthe time.
I do see women making that choice sometimes.
So its not meant as an indictment of her weakness.
But its also she already married him!
They had the wedding.
Itd be interesting to come back and revisit them down the road and see what happens.
The final moment of the show is Quinn in the boat paddling away.
When did that story enter into the honeymoon murder idea?That just fell into place.
I didnt know what exactly I was doing with that kid as I started writing.
In my head, I thought maybe Paula was the one that was going to run off.
Maybe its mySurvivorexperiences.How do I get away from this phone?
How do I get away from this culture?
Let me out of this.
Its another ending moment I felt conflicted about.
Its a fantasy; its definitely a fantasy.
It does take place in a Hawaiian setting, and thats complicated.
Im sure Ill get some criticism along these lines.
But I also felt like Ive had my own honest experience of that.
Ive had that moment where its like,This is so magical.
I feel connected to these people and this space.
Theres real beauty here.Sartre says there are no perfect moments, and Im like,No!
For him, I felt like, give him a little bit of a fantasy ending.
Quinn evokes a lot of what you were playing with inEnlightened.
That part of it is not just a fantasy, I dont think.
Its obviously more complicated than that, and the colonial aspect complicates it even more.
Im that white kid, I guess.
Am I going to hate myself?
What do you do?
I feel like I tried to weave that in.
I got on the boat.
I had that moment.
I think your reaction is the right reaction, which is,I have conflicted feelings about it.
Thats what it hopefully is designed to do.
Did you have a writers room for the show?No, it was just me.
I will say that I think the worst thing in the world is to take yourself too literally.
Art is about asserting a spiritual component to self.
Theres two elements to this.
It shouldnt just be white guys telling these stories.
I think people should use whatever rhetoric they can to leverage that.
Thats something I internally grapple with.
I do believe that I am more than what I look like, and I believe that about everyone.
That part of it we shouldnt throw out in the interest of making it more fair.
Id be telling stories about literally my life, and I dont want to tell that story.
Thats the deepest connection you might make in art.
The possibilities of tourism inThe White Lotusseem like theyve evolved fromEnlightened.
And part of that is a positive.
Vacation cannot just be a fantasy.
Youre so self-aware that you see that youarethat guy, but also youre not!
The waters are rising here, too.
Theres no getting away from it all.
Theres no mystery anymore.
Itd be nice to be completely obtuse about all these things.
This is something I wanted to explore with the show, how everyones on the defensive right now.
Everyone feels on their heels a little bit.
Im doing it right now defending why I wrote this!
Where doIget off writing a show that takes place in Hawaii?
I feel it as a creator, too.
Should I just gracefully step off the stage and hide in a hole?
You do feel like youre in an Ouroboros eating your own tail.
In the first episode, you introduce Lani, a pregnant hotel employee who gives birth in the resort.
We never see her again, and I found myself thinking about her constantly in the later episodes.
I wondered what happened to her!Its not just her, too.
We meet Kai and then he just disappears.
That was the mandate.
But I thought it would be interesting to do that.
At the very beginning, [Armond says], Were interchangeable helpers.
I thought that would be maybe controversial, but its like a steamrolling.
My hope is that the critique of that is built into the DNA of it.
Inthe penultimate episode,Armond quotes from Tennysons poem The Lotos-Eaters.
How early did you have the shows title in place?The title was there before I started writing.
The idea of and again, this is somethingIexperienced, ugh.
I came out, so I felt like I was going to always swim upstream.
Am I a lotos-eater?Yeah, ItookTheEmoji Movie.
I tried to get the money forthat house in Hawaii.
Ive tried to justify some of it by being like,Oh, I didnt come from money.
Ill get my mom out of debt.
At some point, its hard to justify continuing to chase the dragon.
I have been Shane.
Theres so much time!
That felt true in 2011 in a way that does not feel true now.Maybe youre older, too.
Theres been a lot of positive things, and a lot of people have been held accountable.
[But] I think Ive become more conflicted about my own idealistic self and the limits of that.
Either Im a libtard, or Im above the accusations of privilege.
Its like what Quinn says at one point.
Wereallparasites on the earth.
There is no virtuous person anymore.
I feel like some of the sentiment I still want to believe.
Where is Eden when we bring the problem with us everywhere?Its just my wallpaper now!
What would be the words of wisdom?
What would be the voiceover of Amy Jellicoe now?
If I wanted to create a virtuous show, I could do it.
The point of art is to reflect something that feels true and conflicted!
Its a deep criticism of whos getting what stories made, which is a completely valid conversation.
But obviously, it would threaten me in some way!
Because this is all I can do!
I dont know how to be a general manager of a hotel!
Should he just disappear?Am I bad because of the things I cant control?
I think thats something that, again, is so in the Zeitgeist right now.
I think its worth making things that hopefully arent oblivious and hold both truths.
Theres an idealistic strain that has some humanity and at the same time acknowledges the imperfect creation.
What you want is to inspire debate.
Now its like, Oh, hes a white, privileged guy.
Like Steves character, I was the good guy!Dont be mad at me!
Im one of the good guys!Well, you still do stand for that.
You still are going to be read that way.
Your house that has been paid off should be enough of a consolation for the criticism you receive.
So I accept the criticism.
But a part of you you want everybody to like you.
Its like David and Goliath.
I want to be a David!
But youre not a David anymore!
I dont need anyone to feel sorry for me; I dont feel sorry for myself.
But I still want to think about things, and I still want to create stuff.
And my hope is that its useful for somebody besides myself.
Its so fascinating to me thatSurvivorcomes up for you so much in talking about this show.
How doesSurvivorplay into your artistic life?So much of self is situational.
All the different strategies ofSurvivorfelt like they were analogous to whatever I was going through.
Even in the best scripted dramas, I sense a little of that.
The first season ofSurvivor, these people were, like, straight out of life.
So funny and complex.
And also very base and human!
Thank you for making the time to have this conversation.
I really want to be honest.
If the artist isnt going to be honest, who is going to be honest?
Its a thorny world, and you never want to say the wrong thing.
Anytime you want to talk again, Im available.Do I have to pay by the hour?
Im very reasonable, I promise.
