The showrunners and friends discuss saying no to mainstream, formulaic comedy onscreen.
Save this article to read it later.
Find this story in your accountsSaved for Latersection.
A Russian doll and ballplayer walk into a theater.
Pretty soon, one has opened up and the other has knocked the interview out of the park.
At Vulture Festival this year, Natasha Lyonne sat down to be interviewed by her friend Abbi Jacobson.
I get very Buster Keaton, Harold Lloyd, Charlie Chaplin, she says.
I start moving differently.
Watch their conversation below, or read on for the full transcript.
Abbi Jacobson:I have a notebook with notes, because I get very nervous.
Do you resent when people walk up to you and say, Are you having fun?
Do people ever do that to you?
How about when someones like, Arentyou having so much fun?Its super-weird!
Who here is having fun in their life?
[Crowd cheers.]
Okay, I guess thats why.
The other one that really stresses me out is How are you?
You dont need to know all that!
Thats a crazy fucking question!
Its as crazy as everyone having children!
I mean, How are you?
In a general sense, going kind of well.
Were gonna die, so it seems hectic that were this stressed out.
Anyway, you have a notebook.
I do have a notebook.
We just got yanked into a bunch of rooms backstage which is why were late.
Im just gonna say: It wasnt us.
But it did remind me how we met.
We met at this comedy show in New York.Kevin Corrigans comedy showin …?No sense.
Could have been 97.
My grasp on spacetime is low.
I think it was 2014.Okay.
So a decade ago.
It was almost a decade ago.
Thats a really nice thing.
I remember I was writing the first season, and you guys were in what season?
We might have been in season five.
Whats this company like?
How does this work?
But when we first met, you were onOrange Is the New Black.
I have known your work forever and have been such an admirer.
You were mostly an actor, but withRussian Doll, you are at the helm.
Youre wearing all the hats youre writing it, youre showrunning it, youre producing it.
Did you direct in season one too?Season one, I only directed the finale.
Then in season two, I directed about half of it.
At the beginning ofRussian Doll, was that a conversation you were having with Amy?Its so crazy.
Im sure theres people in this room that are working on their shows and stuff.
But that shit takes so long.
It breaks your spirit.
It really makes you think,This is never gonna happen.
Of course, in back of that is a whole lifetime of cataloguing information and being a person.
But you constantly feel a very common and real artistic feeling, like, Im missing this moment.
But life is busy doing its own thing.
Its almost like its breaking you down to be ready for when the real heat is going to hit.
Youve got to be so rooted in your personhood.
Its such a personal thing that youre making.Im sure you feel the same way withA League of Their Own.
Theres just so many weird little divots and tangents that it takes to actually get something on the air.
Theres the emotional weight of that.
Then Ill be in the editing room and the marketing meetings.
Then Ill talk about it, because I really made it.
Its almost like the real question isHow could you do it any other way?
Do you feel that way moving forward?
Like, I agree.
I cant not be in the marketing meeting.
You are doing a new show,Poker Face, and you produced that.I love what you make.
[Turns to the audience.]
Youre like,Oh yeah, shes literally this motherfucker.
[Turns back to Jacobson.]
You know what I mean?
Its a little bit like being a session musician, acting.
I want to help you play your song.
I know his wife, Karina Longworth, who Im very fanned out on.
I was sort of flattered that this major auteur who I love wanted to actually make something with me.
But ultimately, it is very much his.
ButRussian Dollis my baby in this very different way.
Im 43, so its a weird kind of delay.
And to answer your earlier question, Amy and I made this other show prior to this calledOld Soul.
I sawOld Soul.You saw it?
Yeah, I sawOld Soul.What do you mean?
I think Amy let me see it.Wild!
Greta Lee was in it.
Great!Its not bad, that show!
And Nick.Nick Thune is in it.
It was an NBC-sitcom version ofRussian Doll.
I play Nadia, and Gretas my roommate.
And Ruth, whos played by Elizabeth Ashley inRussian Doll, is played by Ellen Burstyn.
David Wain directed it.
Marla Gibbs is in it.
But it was an NBC sitcom that failed.
After that, Amy and I were sitting in the car being like, Oh shit.
Shouldnt we do something for cable, where we say whatever the hell we want?
So the failure set us up for what would become this thing.
Im so happy thatOld Souldidnt work out, becauseRussian Dollis so much more you.
Like, youre such a cinephile.
For your 40th birthday, you rented out a theater and invited friends to come watch a film.
It was like a Nazi German.
Maybe it was Mussolini?It wasnt Mussolini, baby.
It was Lina WertmullersSeven Beauties, the first female director to be nominated for an Oscar.
Or maybe she even won.
Anyway, they just gave her an honorary Oscar.
Lina Wertmuller, for those who dont know Im mansplaining she was Fellinis No.
2 for a long time and would help find all those weird little Fellini faces and so on.
Listen, its a beautiful film.
Im not a monster!
You were talking about collecting moments in your life that have led up to the creation ofRussian Doll.
And its not thatOld Souldoesnt have this in there, butRussian Dollis so filmic.
I saw the invite to the New York version of the party, which wasThe King of Comedy.Yes.
I read the room.
I said, Seems like people dont react well to foreign films at 40th-birthday parties!
So in New York, I screenedThe King of Comedy,and it was a big hit.
Really, I was showing the two sides of whatRussian Dollseason two was going to be.
I was really just doing research with friends.
I wanted to talk more about season two, because it feels a little bit like an anthology.
Same characters, but you dive so much deeper.
I was a real drug addict, then I cleaned up my act.
Then you have, of course, Alan having his own version from a very different side.
Right, thats so early and you forget that.In season two, its in the title:Russian Doll.
Its begging for a deeper question.
It was really like, Now that Ive stopped dying, how do I go about living?
Then you stop getting high, you slam on the brakes, and it all comes crashing forward.
Its like, well, now I gotta deal with some hectic shit for real.
What is the story I think I know about who I think I am?
What if I had a window to be able to resee those?
Would I be able to look in the mirror?
Maybe I would be able to see that person just a little bit differently.
Youre telling me Im gonna have to carry that around my whole life?
I feel like thats something we really have in common.
I feel like your MO going intoLeagueisOkay, but are we not going to tell the story?
The actual story of this thing?Its 2024.
Lets not get into it!
Lets just be here now, in this moment, on January 3, 2024.
But isnt that a little bit how you felt too?
Like, Fuck it, why not?
Some might think from the black clothing that Natasha has a fuck it mentality.
But I think the work that you do is actually the exact opposite.
Like, fuck what?
Does that feel more right?Yeah, it does.
I hadnt really thought of it that way, but its true.
Im not like, Fuck it, who cares?
Im more like, Fuck it, lets burn it down.
I have big Fuck it, why not really go for it?
What else are we doing?
I know youve directed a ton of TV.
I tried to get you to doLeague.You did.
I just know you throw yourself into directing.
You have such a clear vision as an artist.I do love it.
I love it the most.
It fits like a glove, and its really the thing that makes me want to get old.
Youre remaking that movie, right?I am.
Im making a shot-for-shot remake ofSeven Beauties.
That thing we all need!
But anyway, I really love directing.
It was just us three.
I knew Leslye and Jamie so deeply that it was very safe and beautiful.
It was really moving for me.
OnPoker Face, I got to direct Nick Nolte.
You know when they talk about an Altman zoom?
Like, a slow zoom in a lot of 70s movies.
Or if you think about Spielberg.
He directed the pilot ofColumbo.
I think hes here tonight.What a guy.
We love your pictures!
Cant wait forThe Fabelmans!
Imagine, here is Nick Nolte, and Im watching the monitor, and Im getting tighter and tighter.
Its fun as shit!
I was so hot for this zoom gun!
If I just had Nick Nolte and a zoom gun, thatd be my personal heaven!
When Im directing and Im in it, I get very Buster Keaton, Harold Lloyd, Charlie Chaplin.
I start moving differently.
Im over here with the monitor, and were fixing this, and were talking.
Im like, The budget!
Youre fully plugged into the matrix at that point.
When youre doing that many things, youre like, Ive never been so awake!
And Im usually like Garfield.
Ideally, I would sleep 19 hours a day and just look at cats.
Im fine to drop out of society for years at a time.
But when youre doing that much, its very much like you have tentacles.
Besides directing, what are you most excited about right now?I recently decided Im a surfer.
I think my old personality sucked.
The person youre seeing tonight is not bad, and its because Im a surfer now!
Prior to this, I was too stressed out.
I was clinging too tight.
Now Im reading this new Stephen Hawking book on the beach, surfing.
I got up three times.
Im very excited to be that new person.
Im relieved the old person is dead and buried!
That sounds pretty incredible.Well, you know, I wouldnt say Im fully pro yet.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
