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All this occurred just as two of Loznitsas films were heading toward U.S. release.
The first, which opened last week, is his devastating documentaryBabi Yar.
For years, Loznitsa has switched between narrative and documentary, though the two forms directly influence one another.
(Donbassis a narrative film, for example, but Loznitsa re-creates scenes based on actual events.)
The past few weeks have been interesting for you.
Then the Ukrainian Film Academy kicked you out.
I found it very weak, very timid.
They even didnt dare to call war a war, and I just couldnt possibly agree with this.
Those filmmakers who oppose the Russian regime and condemn the war should not be boycotted.
I also find the idea of boycotting Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, or Dostoevsky to be absurd.
I was struck by theviciousnessof the language of the Ukrainian Film Academy.
It was interesting to see them use the word cosmopolitan to describe you.
I know in English that word has a very loaded connotation, having often been used in anti-Semitic contexts.
Does it read that way over there as well?Yeah.
It is very possible.
Context, to which they reacted very strongly.
Im only communicating my opinion and my point of view.
My previous fiction film,A Gentle Creature,received the Best Director Award from the Ukrainian Film Academy.
I would say that the relationship in previous years was professional.
I started working on this topic ten years ago, in 2012.
The Ukraine that is shown in the filmBabi Yar.
Contextis very different from the country that exists at the moment.
Its two different Ukraines, two different countries, and its two very different wars.
This is why also the consequences and the ways these two wars were and are fought are very different.
Does an artists responsibility change during times of war?No, of course not.
This is the duty of an artist.
An artist should do what he can and what he has to do.
I was tremendously shocked by this story.
It happened for real, and the dialogue was exactly how it happened in real life.
So its based on documentary evidence.
Ive always been intrigued by how so many of your documentaries use crowds.
But you seem to take the opposite point of view.
You focus on the crowd and on the multiplicity of faces in the crowd.
to make it describe the processes that I want to describe, I dont need a protagonist.
And I also need to invent new tools to get to keep the spectators attention.
How do you go about structuring these films?
You said you like to use an idea as the protagonist.
Of course, I already have an idea, a preconception, before I start working with the material.
But then at the same time, I get ideas from the footage as I research it.
If we compareBlockadeandBabi Yar.
The episodes that come after that are my interpretation.
Its a statement, in which I show my attitude, my commentary.
Context, the actual end of the narrative occurs precisely halfway through the film.
It was only after I came across Grossmans text that I actually knew how to construct the whole narrative.
And yes, those films,Babi Yar.
ContextandBlockade, they end with a scene of mass execution, which is of course absolutely shocking.
Its shocking to think that, even 75 years ago, it was still possible.
Contextis a kind of variation on and development of the dramaturgy of the filmBlockade.
And yes, I decided not to use this.
Even when we meet each other and shake hands, this is a ritual.
Rituals tell us about ourselves, what we are.
And inDonbass, it was very important to show this wedding ritual because its a parody.
What happens is that theritual is being destroyed from within.
The theatricality of this ritual is being exposed, and also the nature of the ritual is being destroyed.
All of life becomes grotesque, and the rituals that are part of this life also become grotesque.
Again, this whole episode happened in real life, and its based on documentary material.
