HowCmon Cmondirector Mike Mills convinced Joaquin Phoenix to father his movie son.
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The two of them slowly learn to trust and communicate with each other.
I was like, Oh, God.
No, it surprised me.
Was it an emotional writing and filming experience for you?I mean, Im a softie.
Im an emotional person.
But the writing vibe is not that.
Maybe while writingBeginnersI cried, remembering my dad.
But shooting, yeah, Ill cry often.
The actor does something quite amazing and when Im on set watching, Im in it.
Every micro thing, Im completely absorbed.
So Ill cry very often.
He loves being in a scene acting and then going, Mike Mills!
And Ill be like, You cant do that!
I dont exist when youre acting!
When you do that, I jump out of my skin.
He addresses you mid-acting?Hell go, Mike Mills!
What am I doing?
And he hasnt changed his voice.
He just delivered a line very beautifully, and then, Mike Mills, that was crap.
Why does he call you by your full name?Hes a weirdo.
Or hell call me Mills.
What was the seed of the idea for this movie?Being with my kid.
Ive learned so much from Hoppers mom.
Its so intense, political, and emotional.
Its intense; everything is there.
But I had to find a way to distance this movie from me and Hoppers reality.
So I had to find ways to not make it about us.
I was really happy to transfer it to them.
It was a great fit.
They each had a lot to bring to it.
Woody is such crazy good casting.
He carries the film, and I didnt realize he was British until I read the press notes!
How did you guys find him?
If we dont find the right kid, we cant even start.
But Woody was on the first casting tape.
He didnt perform for the camera.
Which is a really great thing.
He was just in his consciousness.
He didnt have that [smiles cheesily]ding!for the camera.
Woody wasnt like that.
He was super intriguing.
But he was in London.
I showed them to Joaquin and I was like, I feel confident thats him.
Hes obviously very smart and really funny, and Joaquin loves to just say anything, loves the unexpected.
That which is not planned is Joaquins favorite energy source.
And Woody is justrightthere.
Should I call you Daddy, should I call you Johnny?
And Joaquin goes, Call me Jesus Christ.
And Woody goes, Im not Christian.
Just without a beat.
What about Gaby and Joaquin?
I was like, Can you do that in the scene tomorrow?
It was so what that mom would do for that kid, this inappropriate rap.
And Joaquin is just constant.
Hes the brother to three intense moms and knows all about it.
Thats how a lot of the film happened.
Its not as much improvisation as it is warping and wefting.
Before he officially signed on, you talked to Joaquin for a really long time, right?
And went through the script together?
Thats what Ive heard through the grapevine.
I just adore him.
We just kept talking and talking about parenting and life and having a good time.
I was just like, I have no idea whats gonna happen.
And thats just the deal.
And he would sort of paw through it.
Hes so freaking smart and funny and he loves and cares about film so much.
It was a golden situation for me to be around that brain.
But I didnt know if he was gonna do it until the end.
It took almost a year.
It wasnt until we were in prep that I was like, Okay, hes for sure doing it.
Would you have let anyone else do the part, or have anyone else in mind?No.
I was like, What the fuck?!
The producers were like, Maybe you have to keep looking for other kids.
And I was like, Believe me.
If you cant get this kid in the country, theres no film happening.
Everyone thought I was being this braggadocio director.
But there wasnt anyone else who could have pulled it off.
Im sorry the female character is supporting the guy, I apologize.
Shes a mom, I tried to give her some real moments.
Heres my idea: I gotta get Joaquin to do this movie.
And you feel so familial and Ive always loved and wanted to work with you.
What do you think of that?
It took a long time to finally be like, Gaby, guess what?
Im equally as big a Gaby fan as I am a Joaquin fan.
All of theTransparentandGirlsstuff, whenever shes on, its super electric.
It feels so genuine.
You dont know whats gonna happen.
The reactions are always unique and real.
If Ive ever been a genius, it was picking Gaby.
She and Joaquin are so brother and sister when they hang out.
Theyre having a very funny fight or a giggle fit.
They are so well-matched.
Both feel really strongly.
So the film gods were telling me I wouldnt be doing rehearsal this time in a normal way.
I rehearsed with them each alone.
Gaby and Woody hung out, had lunch, did stuff.
We didnt go through scenes as much as talk about life.
Theyd both had the idea: Wouldnt it be amazing if we didnt meet until …
But really it was, I really hate prep.
Dont make me do prep.
And there are some things Miranda does that are similar to what Liv does.
Theyre equally engaged, philosophical, takes it really seriously.
Theres affinities between those two people.
I wasnt trying to make a portrait of Miranda, and Miranda would be very surprised to hear that.
Thats a very Miranda thing to say as a parent.
What does Hopper think of your other films?They havent seen them.
So we both have a go at downplay, make it not a big deal.
The poor kids got two of us in that house.
Hoppers an amazing creative person, and knows an uncanny amount about filmmaking intuitively.
But I venture to give them that space.
And clearly, beyond my own story, I really just like that stuff.
Like isnt the right word.
Im drawn to trying to understand those dynamics.
I find it endlessly interesting.
She was a great teacher to me.
Why do you think youre so, I guess, obsessed by the concept of memory?[Laughs.
]I dont know what thats all about.
Memory is just one of the more precious things to me.
The human inevitability of that.
And what you remember together, your co-story of whats happening.
That to me is blowing up the Death Star.
Thats whats important, the goal, the action part of my films.
The car of my Vin Diesel movie is what we remember together.
And Joaquin, when he said it, it was slightly different.
I can really relate to that.
Making films about your dead parents is communing.
And communing is holding on.
How did the recording sessions work with Joaquin and these kids?
There would always be a principal or a teacher in the school who really helped us.
His prep was interviewing people, too: his nephews, a preschool teacher I adore.
A few kids would be like, Youre the Joker!
Hes really conscious of power.
How its used and abused.
The power relationship if you have a camera, a mic, if youre older.
Trying to acknowledge and be aware of it, or be unintentionally manipulative or freak out the kid.
Thats just his natural instinct.
His connection with these kids was really genuine, and his intention of nonviolent communication is really alive.
It made the rest of the film better.
We were doing these interviews every day, because Woodys hours are short.
It changes your whole chemistry.
Can you tell me about the choice to film it in black-and-white?Theres a pile of reasons.
One is I fucking love black-and-white movies, I wish there were more.
Its its own little craft.
And the film does have a documentary aspect; its really right now.
But really, its a fable.
Its this archetypal Jungian thing.
Black-and-white enhances and helps you enter it.
I kept thinking of it as a David Hockney drawing.
A drawing to me means quick, intimate, al dente, effortless feeling even if its not.
To have that feral jungle-ness of New York City.
And Im always looking for opposites.
I think Im actually a sucker for recreating them.
To that point, your movies reference other works of art very directly.
How do these works of art factor into your writing process?I love collecting.
Films are huge, theyre like big buckets.
Everything I shoot is pretty simple but theres a lot of different elements.
Its just the way I work: Ooh, thatKristen JohnsonCamerapersonquote is so fucking good.
Thats in my Evernote.
Oh, thatJacqueline Rosequote is so profound.
And Viv would definitely read that.
I really enjoy decentralizing my own authorial voice.
Did you ever readUnbearable Lightness of Being?
Yeah.I read it in college and I feel like Im just ripping it off forever.
He kind of does that, takes essay parts and other writing and changes the form.
So those are all things I bumped into along the way.
I readStar Childto my kid and I cry and my kid makes fun of me.
I like accumulating and collaging.
Like, Oh, Aaron Dessners daughter has this orphan story.
Can I yo take that?
Its a documentary mentality.
Youre collecting and preserving.And walking around in a heightened state of, Whats going to help now?
He was like, Its not what you thought or expected or planned, its what it is.
If youre available to whatis, its like,Whew!Everything is electric.
Thats very zen.Im not so good in real life.
I kind of suck at that.
But as a filmmaker, I can hold onto it.
