To make his new album, the rapper had to get back in touch with reality.
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Then there was Ab-Soul, an esoteric, cerebral lyricist who strived to find deeper meaning.
But things soon began to spiral out of control.
I intentionally tried not to listen to much music during this process so I didnt have much external influence.
I wanted it to sound like me.
You could easily just get influenced by what youre hearing, cadences and flows.
I just wanted it to all come from me as naturally as possible.
Im glad you put it that way, but I never stopped loving rap.
Gotta Rap was a dream come true.
I can honestly say I do get the respect of being the last of the lyricists, that cloth.
Ive met him in passing before, but we connected when he didPRhyme.
I was at my brother Mac Millers crib.
We was working on some other stuff, and Royce sent me the record.
I was like, Yo, Mac is over here, too.
Hes like, What?
Oh yeah, yall go crazy.
You know I got you.
I owe you one.
I said, Okay, yeah.
Im going to hold you to that.
I knew I needed him this time around.
He definitely put me to work.
I had to do it about five or six times until he found the right frequency.
So you had to rewrite the verses?No, not rewriting.
So he wanted to ensure I came correct.
That was the first time anybody ever made me rerecord.
So that was humbling.
How long have you been working on this album?Since my last album.
I took a good year and a half off.
I droppedDo What Thou Wiltin 2016.
I went out on tour in 2017.
I picked back up about late 2018.
I had plans to drop in 2020.
I thought that was tight with my beingvision impaired.
Twenty-twenty vision, I thought that was cute.
But the pandemic hit.
It was very heavy.
But I was in the rabbit hole, if you will, with my theories and philosophy.
I was just going too far and was more concerned about the words than actually how the music felt.
So this time I wanted to pay more attention to the music.
And it was difficult getting back into a rhythm.
It was very difficult.
We usually think ego is great in rap.And that bravado was there.
Its a competitive sport.
you could be the guy to rap.
I like to call myself the god of rap.
But really I justgotto rap.
You get what Im saying?
But this is a reminder that thats Ab-Soul in the booth playing.
Ab-Soul is a character, hes a brand.
Herbert is who I really am.
So when I say Im the god, I mean we all are gods.
We all are Gods children.
Its not just me.
I just kind of wanted to make that clear this time.
Thats one of my best friends, King Richard.
He can vouch how much I put into this, man.
On Fallacy, I say King Richard still owes me a million swishers at the beginning.
I would get off of work, and he aint have no money.
He helped me sharpen my skills.
And he knows the dedication that I had.
So its about those people who call me Herb.
He doesnt call me Soul.
He doesnt call me Ab.
This album is for them.
Youve made music that can be really personal.
The Book of Soul, for example.
And I think songs like that can make fans feel like they already know you.Absolutely.
And that was my intent.
But thats why this album is for everyone whos not a fan of mine that really knows me.
This album is for them.
But its kind of in an organic, creative way.
Janky promoters always gave me the runaround.
Im a big homie now in rap, a vet if you will.
I didnt have Wi-Fi at first.
I did pep rallies, I battled in the street.
I battled online with Netzero free trials, on dial-up.
I did talent shows.
I paid to perform.
I sold tickets to open up for people.
I did the whole dance.
I passed out my mixtape for real.
My first demo was on cassette; I gave it to DJ Quik.
Ive been doing this shit for real, out the trunk.
I come from that area.
So when I say Im not opting out, Im talking about that time.
Im not ever quitting.
I am a role model to a lot of people.
Theyre listening to me, and theyre taking what I say to heart.
That was driving me into a depression, among other things.
I was losing touch with reality.
You get what Im saying?
It was too esoteric.
People was calling me a satanist.
And I get it, everybodys entitled to their opinion.
I wasnt popping out.
I wasnt going to the clubs no more, I wasnt hanging out as much with the homies.
I was isolating myself in this rabbit hole.
So that break fromDo What Thou Wiltwas necessary for me to get back to self.
Hop off the internet, stop doing research, stop attacking the powers that be.
I like to get to the bottom of things.
Im still the homie, Im still outside.
And I think that drove me deeper into trying to stay in that way of creating.
I think I thought that people only wanted me for that.
This is a particularly fraught time for conspiracy theories.
Youve got QAnon, youve got Ye being antisemitic.
I found out about the third eye, the pineal gland, DMT.
I found out about these things, and I was so excited about it.
It was so interesting to me.
And Im trying to tell Schoolboy Q about it.
Im like, Yo, Q, man, this is crazy.
Q is like, I got a daughter, bro.
Hey, pass the blunt, bro.
Im trying to get money.
What are you talking about?This is Q, one of my best friends.
And I made Pineal Gland for Q.
It started out almost as a prank.
So this isstimulating the hoes, educating my niggas.I found a theme.
You cant just give a dog medicine; you have to mix it in their dog food.
I can do this and teach, because its intelligent movement.
I thought that was cool.
I kind of felt a duty to keep coming with new conspiracies, being more radical.
Like,Oh, this is what you want from me.
But you go too far with that, you dont stay on the ground, man.
Finding balance in any manner is a practice.
Trapeze artist, I mean, you get what Im saying?
Balance is a practice literally in any way you want to describe it.
And I think thats the ultimate yin and yang.
Its the ultimate goal to find the median.
So I really cant answer that.
I dont know the right way to find the balance, as if I have it.
I grew up in the Christian church.
My grandma made sure I was there on Sunday.
I had perfect attendance in Sunday school till I was about 17 years old.
My mom made sure I went.
But I would never do that in front of my grandma.
I started thinking about it like that.
Everybody should be entitled to believe in what they want to believe in.
I cant say theyre wrong.
Then theyll believe you, and now theyre lost.
I go challenge the Bible.
What would that do?
Thats not peace, thats not love.
And its for you.
Theres many different walks of life, and you got to let everybody walk their own path.
We cant be out here acting like we know anything.
The wise man knows he knows nothing.
You saved my life.
When somebody says that to me, with great power comes great responsibility.
Im like no, you savedmylife.
I have to reciprocate it.
Im only questioning things.
Im trying to open a discussion for thought …
I just wanted to fire up the discussion.
Lets not just have so much blind faith.
That was the intent.
He encouraged me to share my testimony.
But that really happened to me.
Initially, in my recovery, I didnt want to sell that.
It didnt feel right.
So that means that by me giving my testimony, I can continue to help and be of service.
And maybe really, really save my life.
A lot of times when they say, You saved my life, thats kind of like an expression.
But now I might really be of service literally in that right.
On the title track, Herbert, on the hook you say, Theyll never understand Herbert Anthony.
And like you said, only so many people call you Herb.
And I have guardian angels now, really.
I really feel that.
I really believe that.
I still feel their presence.
These things never completely go away.
But you just find a way to peace with it, ultimately.
You, Kendrick, and Isaiah Rashad have all spoken about getting therapy.
I dont think Ive seen a label that had that many of their top artists openly speaking about it.
Im a mamas boy.
Im going to do what my mother tells me to do for the most part.
I was lucky I fell in love with my therapist; we clicked immediately.
I felt like she understands.
It wasnt the commercialized version of how therapy goes.
So how does that make you feel?
Shes still my therapist to this day.
That goes back to how our people are turned off with the mental-health conversation, going to therapy.
It means youre crazy, all of the stigma that weve been taught.
I love this shit.
I love all of this shit.
I love everything that comes with it.
Ive been up all night.
I havent gotten any sleep.
I lived out here for a while.
I moved to the Bronx.
I went where they said hip-hop started.
Im living out my dream.
Its not something that I have to do.
This is me, man.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
