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A great piece of gossip, meanwhile, can ruin your life.
Its the intimacy of collusion with no objective, a bond over nothing but drama.
Producing that energy is the governing principle of the show, and its proven to be infectious.
Since its launch in January,Normal Gossipquickly broke through the noise purely organically.
To start, how do you source gossip for the show?
That was a more closed process than what were doing now.
Since, I think, episode five of season one, all of our gossip has come from listeners.
Because itsnormalgossip, we dont want it to only come from people we know.
We want it to come from everyone no matter where they live or what they do.
Our inbox is now a mess because its full of stories from everyone.
Which of these has enough characters?
Which of these can sustain an hour long story?
That alone is going to cut out most of your submissions.
What do you look for in a piece of gossip?
Kelsey:You need plot.
Most people dont have stories they just have ideas, or a thing that happened that triggered a fallout.
You need some kind of twist.
There should never be one clear villain in the stories were telling.
It doesnt give you the breadth of conversation about, Well, whos right?
And what should you do?
In which circumstances is this behavior okay?
Were looking for things that are morally complicated.
We ask, Is this going to be fun for us?
And we also look for things, you know, with a little oomph that I cant really describe.
You know it when you see it.
Alex Sujong Laughlin:You also need a dash of absurdity.
So thatsthe squirrel hat.
Thats whats-her-name jumping into a Corvette and disappearing.
How do you vet a submission?
And to what extent are you determining whether a story is true?
Alex:I would turn that question back and ask why it matters if your gossip is true.
Do you think its important?
Alex:Its not.
Not for us, at least.
Were using our skills as reporters and storytellers to create a world for listeners thats fun.
That doesnt mean that were doing journalism, which to be extremely clear,we are not.
The vetting that we do is about, like, Does this feel emotionally true?
Kelsey:you might think about vetting as a process of what you dont wanna do, right?
Like, one, we would prefer not to get sued in general.
Telling you a fully true story with everyones names is a recipe for disaster.
Were not in the business of hurting normal people.
On that note, how do you anonymize these stories?
Kelsey:We change names, locations.
Those are the easy ones, and then theres the complicated stuff.
If I remember correctly, the parents were acting up: They were sleeping together, creating chaos.
Maybe they play volleyball, soccer, whatever.
All the very real beats are there, but its just fractured.
Its going through a prism, and coming out the other side a little more colorful.
Has a listener ever successfully identified themselves in a story and reached out about it?
Im thinking specifically aboutthe knitting episode.
People emailed us after that and said, Oh, is this about my knitting group in this community?
Thats what were trying to do.
That people think its their story because its so good and so true.
What do you think that says about people if lots of folks seem to recognize themselves in these stories?
Alex:That people have a lot of shit theyre processing and dealing with on a day-to-day basis.
Thats why we have the What would you do?
prompts throughout the episode, because it invites that projection into the situation that is core to all gossip.
I wonder if theres a confessional aspect to your submission inbox.
The enthusiasm around the show has essentially turned people into hungry little goblins for gossip.
What makes a good guest?
You know, this is actually something that I am interested in maybe writing more about.
So theres this concept in audio about, like, What does a good radio voice sound like?
Whos a good talker?
Weve had comedians on, and theyve been delightful, total pros.
But theres this whole range of presence on mic that I think is less visible.
I started thinking about it when B.A.
Parker was hired as one of theCode Switchhosts, because she has a presence on mic thats really gentle.
Kelsey:I mean, we tell everyone at the start of recording: Be bitchy.
Better to go hard in the paint and regret it later than to hold back.
you’re able to try a joke and fail and its fine.
Alex is exactly right that the gentleness factor of some of our guests has paid off really well.
Kelsey:That satisfaction of making your quiet friend scream.
Thats fun, I think, as a listener too.
The new season comes out this week.
Whats your ambition with the show?
How big are you hoping this will get?
Alex:Well, our primary goal is to not overwork ourselves.
We are two ambitious people who are also very prone to burnout.
Kelsey and I are also both writers.
We have other things were working on.
So the hope is that this project will always work in conversation with our other passions.
I give all of that credit to Defector when I came on board to produce this show.
They were like, Okay, what do you think?
What schedule do you need?
As the only person here who has ever produced a podcast, we want your opinion.
You asked how big wed want to get.
Thats an interesting question because, one, we dont control it.
And they were all like, Its not a proven concept.
We dont know what to do with it.
Were now at 50,000 listens by noon the day a new episode is released.
Just today, right before this call, we hit 4 million listens.
Were at a place now thats far beyond what I thought would happen.
And what Alex said is absolutely correct.
We love doing this because its fun for us, and we wont make the podcast bad for growth.
We would like to grow.
So Im willing to believe that maybe these people arent right.
And if were leaving money on the table by not going weekly, thats fine.
Id rather not have a mental break.
Do you have a dream guest?
Shes probably my dream guest.
Alex:We sent an email to Harry Styles once.
He did not respond.
And then like my slightly more attainable dream guest would be Bowen Yang.
This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
