Contemplating infinity, cross-country trips, and a towering double album with rocks critical darlings.
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Something peculiar happens whenever Big Thief comes together to play music.
Its a unique synergy even the critically acclaimed quartet has a hard time explaining.
Its, in some ways, very mysterious, says bassist Max Oleartchik.
Despite additional guests, Big Thief have never sounded more in touch with each other than they do onDragon.
Or, perhaps, its those seemingly supernatural forces that connect each of them through their music.
How did we meet and how did this happen?
None of us can articulate what were looking for, but we all know when its there.
WithU.F.O.F.andTwo Hands,Adrianne has saidit wouldve been too dense to release them as one album.
What was different aboutDragonthat made it right for 20 songs all at once?
Adrianne Lenker:I think that we were building it for that, in a way.
We had four sessions, and each of those could have just been making an album in itself.
So at each new session, we completely forgot about the other ones.
We werent thinking of trying to match the sounds or trying to make continuity at all.
We constructed what felt more like a playlist rather than everything being one vibe.
And if that was the case, then that was the album.
Buck Meek:To me, its an artifact of us becoming more comfortable with ourselves and letting go.
Whereas this one just felt like we were being ourselves and putting our friendships first.
How did you decide what the four locations were going to be?
Was it location first or engineer first?
JK:It was mostly engineer first.
The locations were somewhat pandemic-constricted.
The original plan was extremely bombastic and probably a massive waste of money.
We were like, Well do a castle in Italy.
And then maybe some caves …
BM:I found this cave where this mad scientist builtthis organ.
Its like a full-size church organ thats triggering hammers that strike stalactites or stalagmites as its bells.
I was going to take a stab at get us in that cave.
And then we were going to record in Iceland.
JK:[Laughs] We were going to sequence the album in Hawaii.
BM:We were going to go so into debt.
AL:Its funny that we still think we had to simplify it because of COVID.
We probably wouldve simplified had this been planned anyway.
It just has to be vibey.
So that leaves room for a lot of places in the world.
Setting ourselves up to react to things was the underlying key, I think, beneath all that.
If we go to these different places with different people, were going to play differently.
Did you get a chance to explore these areas at all in between sessions?
Max Oleartchik:We verify to go out because otherwise we get the fever.
Not COVID, just fever of recording.
We know how and when it comes, so we see to it we go out to nature.
AL:I found my dog on the drive from upstate New York.
Remember I wanted to get a dog?
AL:I was on Petfinder and I found this one little dog named Hatchie.
But I was so bent on it.
And when he said that to me, I was like, What are you talking about?
I can handle it!
And then I just started crying.
I was like, [crying] Youre right!
Its not time to get a dog.
And he said, When its the right time, itll happen.
And there were like 15 dogs behind the fence.
So we just pulled over to say hello to the dogs.
Then eventually, this guy sauntered out and he was like, Take whatever you want.
They were accidental and he had way too many dogs.
So I just picked Oso up and then I drove the rest of the wayto Topanga.
But if I just show up, theyre going to fall in love.And they did.
As soon as I pulled up, everyone was like, We love him.
I love that so much.
Those came together in Arizona, right?
JK:Most of them.
Blue Lightning actually came from the first session with Sam, I believe.
What brought it out?
JK:I think its a matter of confidence and comfortability.
We play that kind of music with each other, and Adrianne writes those kinds of songs.
A long time ago, Adrianne wrote that.
I think beforeU.F.O.F.andTwo Handscame about.
AL:That was the first one namedDragon,actually.
And I was like, This is so good.
And youre like, Its just a little joke, no worries.
Its just a fun one.
I was like, Im laughing and crying.
That means its good.
BM:I grew up playing country music.
I think were also getting more comfortable with ourselves as we experience life.
And were also getting more comfortable being ourselves in the context of being with each other.
I think of our very first album which James wasnt even on, he was engineering it Masterpiece.
That was the least ourselves, maybe.
But thenCapacity, I felt like we were way more expressive of our own [individuality].
I remember thats when Max started playing more melodic baselines.
ThenU.F.O.F.andTwo Hands, I was like,Wow, I can really hear each person coming out way more.
BM:Its always been us.
Were always trying to bare our souls as much as we can.
It feels like the beginning.
This is the key that unlocks the room that I really want to be in.
This album is also using electronics and synthetic sounds in a way the band hasnt before.
How did you decide that was something that could be part of Big Thief?
JK:Its almost like theres these parallel streams that are going.
But you are always looking at the other ones like,That looks fun.
A lot of that more electronic stuff, we tried and couldnt fully inhabit it yet.
And so we cut it, as a valuable experiment of like,Ooh, were onto something.
It doesnt quite sound like us yet.
Theres some crazy electronic songs that got left on the cutting-room floor.
MO:I feel like the upside of doing that is that you keep exploring.
The spirit is,Where next?
Who next?We just want to keep reaching out to what is unknown.
And I feel like that curiosity is at the center of what were doing.
To keep the wonder.
How do you know when something is right?
JK:OnTwo Hands, we recorded atSonic Ranch, and we finished the record and sat with it.
The song Not, it was like, Is this the take of this, really?
And we finally just rerecorded it.
Because we were like, I think we can do it better.
And we do know when its not quite there, even if other people will like it.
AL:Were a band that values exploration above product.
I feel like we find the value in the work.
Just building our internal muscles is more valuable to us than the end result.
And I feel like thats a really special thing because it allows for a lot of freedom.
It just has to feel good to us.
If no one else likes it, thats fine.
Like, we cant control it beyond that.
MO:To me, thats one of the greatest things that we have.
Were sitting in the studio and theres this vibe about our band.
I dont like a certain note I did, and I pull it back and everyones looking at it.
We do this to each other.
I say, Yeah, its right there, 1:36.
To me, that is like a giant kiss on the soul.
To experience these things where youre like, I dont like that.
You want to delete that?
AL:More often than not, I feel like the songs lend themselves naturally.
I can always tell based on that momentum.
MO:If one of us wants to do something, were all behind it.
We have ego with each other because were human, I suppose.
But also, there is a place between us, in the music, thats completely selfless.
And when COVID hit, I was like, I want to record right now.
I want to record in this little cabin.
I was planning on recording a lot of Big Thief songs.
And you being fulfilled will feed this project.
And I feel that way with everyones projects they do outside of the band.
AL:Funny enough, I felt full permission.
I actually wanted to record Simulation Swarm solo.
I felt everyone be like, Go for it, do whatever.
Its like, when you let go, stuff falls where its supposed to.
I know Certainty was a co-write between Adrianne and Buck.
How did the two of you get back to that point?
AL:You mean after beingmarried and divorcedand then going through a separation and a reformation?
Yeah, I know youvetalked aboutlearning how to become friends again.
BM:Partly through the music, I think.
The music served as a conduit to that, through that evolution.
AL:I think its just a testament to our bond and the love that we have.
That its not bound to a form.
Its a very deep friendship that maybe is beyond this lifetime.
Maybe weve collaborated in many forms throughout lives.
And everyone in the band felt it.
Its bewildering to me, like,How did we do this?
Lets get different jobs for a little bit.
But theres something about music that is so healing.
BM:Yeah, totally.
If you guys can let go in the music, you find a whole nother layer of empathy there.
Theres just a foundation of much deeper, actual human-to-human connection beyond labels and categories.
I feel like its a fast track for healing anything.
AL:And from the beginning, we connected really deeply, musically.
BM:That was there first.
AL:And I do think that the music healed us.
We were even writing songs on tour about the process of breaking up and singing them together.
Like Two Hands and Replaced.
And I think thats been there for all of us in the band.
I have a friendship with Adrianne, and a friendship with James, and a friendship with Max.
And its been a really long story, reconciling with all of that.
AL:Because weve gone through breakups, all of us in a way.
Me and Max had some breakups, me and James had some breakups.
But the music is the thing thats at the forefront of this sacrifice for each other.
AL:Are we here for the music or is the music here for us?
MO:But the music I think we can call it music is this connection.
And then all the other connections happen.
Actually, maybe its not music.
Maybe its something else, but then we have guitars and stuff.
And its way, way clearer than talking about it, to just play music.
And I kind of hear the middle as this journey to get there.
BM:I never put that together.
AL:I never put that together either.
JK:Its funny because Blue Lightning also was recorded and written before Change.
And was an ad lib.
AL:It is not opposites, though.
Because, Would you live forever, never die?
Change and death is maybe just a doorway into another journey.
Each moment could echo infinitely.
There was a period of time where I would say thats kind of low vibration.
Were going to die, its going to end, everything is temporary.
Thats what youre feeling.
You want to be forever in love.
BM:Right now.
AL:Right now?
you could be with someone forever right now.
Like, you’ve got the option to dance forever right now.
On Spud Infinity, you say When I say infinity, I mean now.
JK:Her ideas all make their way in there, one way or another.
[All laugh]
MO:Were waiting for the mapping of all this on Reddit.
Because we didnt know.
We didnt see those.
AL:I wonder how many little ties there are.
Because we did the sequencing so stream of consciousness.
Just what felt right.
JK:Musics pretty good at making what youre thinking pop out, be it good or bad.
MO:Theres something about music.
[All laugh]
AL:That idea of infinity is mind boggling to me.
I know that, scientifically, you could see the patterns and go, this is probably infinite.
[But] what human being can fathom eternity?
The only thing you’re free to wrap your mind around, maybe, is now.
Theres moments where, and they happen less than I want them to.
I hope that as I grow into life, that theyll happen more.
So then it becomes infinite, like the present.
That feels like the longest life.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
