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Michael Chiklis has never known a world without Red Auerbach.

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It was because of how progressive and forward thinking he was and what a brilliant collaborator he was.

He gave his players a feeling of agency and belonging that other, more dictatorial coaches did not.

Red Auerbach really represented the standard orthodoxy of basketball, if you will.

He was very East Coast.

Then comes this interloper, this upstart Jerry Buss.

Hes a wealthy businessman late in his life who happens to love basketball.

He sees an opportunity from a business standpoint to bring up the entertainment value in arena sports.

It sets the pick for the rivalry from the top down.

Everything else was very different.

It really changed not just the NBA but all arena sports in the way they were packaged and marketed.

I loved the intensity.

I didnt have any idea how really earth-shattering an effect it was having on sport across the board.

Now Ive been living in Los Angeles for 30 years, and Im still into all things Boston sports.

Theres no way I could ever say Go Lakers!

It just couldnt happen.

My daughters grew up here.

They want to be Lakers fans, and its a problem.

He used to say, That guys a winner.

He knows how to talk to his guys.

The difference between a team that is somewhat successful and a championship team is the way they work together.

He understood that Red created an atmosphere for these guys to be successful.

They liked working together.

Thats why their focus was so seamless.

Its like a dance.

It requires incredible athleticism and intelligence.

By the way, Red Auerbach was a really well-educated guy.

He studied down in Washington and then he ended up at Columbia.

He understood people and what motivated them.

I think he was a bit of a mathematical genius.

He saw patterns and understood the physics of the game.

Hed often talk about where rebounds were likely to come down based on probability.

All great coaches do that.

Ninety percent or more of your goals are scored on a rebound.

Great coaches understand the game from myriad levels.

You obviously love Red, but inWinning Time, hes a foil.

Im sure Red would have loved that.

Conversely, if you played against Red Auerbach, you fucking hated him.

What do you think Red is doing with Jerry in the show?

Does he really think that hes better than him or is it just intimidation?All the above.

Think about where Auerbach comes from.

He played basketball from childhood, then he played college ball.

He is an East Coast guy, married with children, has a work ethic.

Thats why Red has the line, It was never fucking leprechaun.

What he means by that is hes not egotistical.

First, he underestimated the competitive nature of Jerry Buss and who he was at his core.

He judged the book by its cover.

The owners cant stand each other and neither can the bat boys.

By the way, rivalry is supposed to be built on respect.

I have always believed that if you dont respect your rivals, youre a fool.

Youre really not a fan of the sport.

They felt it should be a Red Sox fan because his life and his career transcended the rivalry.

I couldnt agree more.

Red smoked a lot of cigars.

What a statement and an absolute fuck you to the other team.

This is where gamesmanship comes in.

He knew how to push buttons.

You have to engage in a little bit of gamesmanship.

Question the wisdom of the suit that he wore into the stadium that night.

Last question: Youre putting together an all-time Celtics all-star team.

Who are your five guys?Holy shit.

I think youve got to have Robert Parish and Kevin McHale.

Youve got to have the Twin Towers there.

I dont think there was anybody with a work ethic like Larry Bird ever.

Do I have to just do five?

Youve got to talk about Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce.

Youve got to talk about the quiet killer Danny Ainge hitting from outside.

Now were over again.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

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